“If you take MAiD…you are under a paralytic…you actually drown to death…you’re waterboarded to death within your own body and you can’t move or do anything about it…[you would] be screaming if [you] weren’t under a paralytic”.
I fact-checked a MAiD video on the Triggernometry channel on YouTube and ended up here, you may want to give them a heads up. Kelsi is making the rounds. I will try to post your substack there
Thank-you for the article. It gives me more to chew on.
I would like actual autopsy research to confirm your rebuttal.
Another concern I have is the morality of taking a life via medical murder vs natural death. By natural death I personally mean no extraordinary medical intervention but yes to fluids if able PO.
My other concern is how MAID can be married to organ transplant. Is there a possibility of organ harvesting being the motivation for Health Canada to promote MAID and increase the acceptance parameters especially young people.
A question I come up after watching Kelsi Sheren is: When the lungs are transplanted from MAID user to organ transplant recipient, is the person still using the lungs when the person gets his lungs out? Don’t they have to be breathing to exit a pair of lungs?
If yes, then this makes me very uncomfortable. This means the organs are coming out while ALIVE.
What about the other organs, is the person still breathing when organs removed for transplant?
It is the Canadian view that all transplants are from dead bodies. I think they would be wrong.
Please don’t give me brain dead verbiage. If lungs are functioning is my question. Thank-you for the dialogue.
Hello again, and sorry for the delay in getting back to you! We’ve been incredibly busy with our work, but I wanted to take a few minutes to answer your questions.
Autopsy Results After MAiD
You asked about autopsy results to confirm my rebuttal. Unfortunately, autopsies are not typically done after MAiD. They are generally only performed in coroner’s cases or when medically necessary. However, as I mentioned in my article, we do have the next best thing—assessments of lungs removed for organ donation. These assessments provide a clear and extensive evaluation of lung condition, just as an autopsy would, and there is no indication whatsoever to suspect what Dr. Zivot and Kelsi claim. The idea that lungs have twice as much water in them is factually wrong, as all lungs are weighed after retrieval for transplant. There is ale the fact that this is not even what Dr. Zivit claimed. He actually said that the lungs in the American executions weighed twice the normal weight. Kelsi couldn't even get that fact right. You can check out the article for a detailed description of how detailed the assessment process is.
Medical Ethics: MAiD vs. “Medical Murder”
You raised concerns about the morality of MAiD versus allowing a "natural death." I understand that we may have differing perspectives on this. My view is that a person should have the right to make an informed, autonomous decision about their death if they meet the strict legal criteria. I wouldn’t characterize it as “medical murder,” but I understand why some people feel that way.
Defining "Natural Death"
You mentioned that, to you, a natural death means no extraordinary medical interventions but allowing fluids if the person can swallow. That’s an important conversation everyone should have with their healthcare team. In British Columbia, one of the tools we use is the Medical Orders for Scope of Treatment (MOST) framework, which helps individuals document what medical interventions they would or wouldn’t want at different stages of life. Some people choose to decline artificial nutrition or hydration, such as IV fluids or feeding tubes, which is a valid personal choice when made in consultation with their medical team.
MAiD and Organ Donation: Ethical Concerns
You also asked whether organ donation could be a motivation for Health Canada to promote MAiD. There is absolutely no evidence of this being the case. From my experience, organ donation in the context of MAiD has been a deeply meaningful choice for patients and their families, allowing something positive to come from a difficult situation.
Safeguards ensure that the MAiD assessment process is entirely separate from the transplant teams, preventing any conflict of interest. Additionally, organ donation is only discussed after a patient has already been approved for MAiD. The patient can withdraw consent for MAiD at any time, regardless of whether they initially planned to donate their organs. There is no obligation whatsoever to proceed with MAiD even if they had considered organ donation.
Lung Function and Organ Retrieval After MAiD
After watching Kelsi Sheren’s video, you asked whether a person is still using their lungs when they are removed for transplant and whether lungs must still be "breathing" before removal. The answer is no—death is confirmed before organ retrieval. In BC, there is a mandatory five-minute waiting period after death is declared before a second confirmation is made. Only then can the surgical team proceed with organ retrieval.
To clarify:
- The person is not alive when their organs are removed.
- There is **no heartbeat** or any residual activity.
- This is the same process followed for **all** organ donations, not just those after MAiD.
Are the Lungs Still Functioning at the Time of Removal?
If by "functioning," you mean actively inflating and oxygenating blood, then **no**—the lungs are not working in that sense. However, organs remain **viable** for a period of time after circulation stops, and transplant teams follow strict protocols to ensure they remain suitable for transplantation. Techniques like organ preservation and transport procedures help maintain viability until the transplant can occur.
I hope that answers your questions! If anything is unclear or if you have more concerns, feel free to ask. I’m happy to expand on any of this.
Thank you for the questions. There's a lot there, so let me take some time to try and answer them and get back to you. I'll post the answers here soon.
I fact-checked a MAiD video on the Triggernometry channel on YouTube and ended up here, you may want to give them a heads up. Kelsi is making the rounds. I will try to post your substack there
Thank you! Is that the video from a few days ago? It's on my list to watch/listen to today.
https://youtu.be/gBgh-yxZtzY
Yup, that's the one. Just listened to it. Somehow it's even more offensive than the Jordan Peterson video. Might have to respond to this one too.
Thank-you for the article. It gives me more to chew on.
I would like actual autopsy research to confirm your rebuttal.
Another concern I have is the morality of taking a life via medical murder vs natural death. By natural death I personally mean no extraordinary medical intervention but yes to fluids if able PO.
My other concern is how MAID can be married to organ transplant. Is there a possibility of organ harvesting being the motivation for Health Canada to promote MAID and increase the acceptance parameters especially young people.
A question I come up after watching Kelsi Sheren is: When the lungs are transplanted from MAID user to organ transplant recipient, is the person still using the lungs when the person gets his lungs out? Don’t they have to be breathing to exit a pair of lungs?
If yes, then this makes me very uncomfortable. This means the organs are coming out while ALIVE.
What about the other organs, is the person still breathing when organs removed for transplant?
It is the Canadian view that all transplants are from dead bodies. I think they would be wrong.
Please don’t give me brain dead verbiage. If lungs are functioning is my question. Thank-you for the dialogue.
Hello again, and sorry for the delay in getting back to you! We’ve been incredibly busy with our work, but I wanted to take a few minutes to answer your questions.
Autopsy Results After MAiD
You asked about autopsy results to confirm my rebuttal. Unfortunately, autopsies are not typically done after MAiD. They are generally only performed in coroner’s cases or when medically necessary. However, as I mentioned in my article, we do have the next best thing—assessments of lungs removed for organ donation. These assessments provide a clear and extensive evaluation of lung condition, just as an autopsy would, and there is no indication whatsoever to suspect what Dr. Zivot and Kelsi claim. The idea that lungs have twice as much water in them is factually wrong, as all lungs are weighed after retrieval for transplant. There is ale the fact that this is not even what Dr. Zivit claimed. He actually said that the lungs in the American executions weighed twice the normal weight. Kelsi couldn't even get that fact right. You can check out the article for a detailed description of how detailed the assessment process is.
Medical Ethics: MAiD vs. “Medical Murder”
You raised concerns about the morality of MAiD versus allowing a "natural death." I understand that we may have differing perspectives on this. My view is that a person should have the right to make an informed, autonomous decision about their death if they meet the strict legal criteria. I wouldn’t characterize it as “medical murder,” but I understand why some people feel that way.
Defining "Natural Death"
You mentioned that, to you, a natural death means no extraordinary medical interventions but allowing fluids if the person can swallow. That’s an important conversation everyone should have with their healthcare team. In British Columbia, one of the tools we use is the Medical Orders for Scope of Treatment (MOST) framework, which helps individuals document what medical interventions they would or wouldn’t want at different stages of life. Some people choose to decline artificial nutrition or hydration, such as IV fluids or feeding tubes, which is a valid personal choice when made in consultation with their medical team.
MAiD and Organ Donation: Ethical Concerns
You also asked whether organ donation could be a motivation for Health Canada to promote MAiD. There is absolutely no evidence of this being the case. From my experience, organ donation in the context of MAiD has been a deeply meaningful choice for patients and their families, allowing something positive to come from a difficult situation.
Safeguards ensure that the MAiD assessment process is entirely separate from the transplant teams, preventing any conflict of interest. Additionally, organ donation is only discussed after a patient has already been approved for MAiD. The patient can withdraw consent for MAiD at any time, regardless of whether they initially planned to donate their organs. There is no obligation whatsoever to proceed with MAiD even if they had considered organ donation.
Lung Function and Organ Retrieval After MAiD
After watching Kelsi Sheren’s video, you asked whether a person is still using their lungs when they are removed for transplant and whether lungs must still be "breathing" before removal. The answer is no—death is confirmed before organ retrieval. In BC, there is a mandatory five-minute waiting period after death is declared before a second confirmation is made. Only then can the surgical team proceed with organ retrieval.
To clarify:
- The person is not alive when their organs are removed.
- There is **no heartbeat** or any residual activity.
- This is the same process followed for **all** organ donations, not just those after MAiD.
Are the Lungs Still Functioning at the Time of Removal?
If by "functioning," you mean actively inflating and oxygenating blood, then **no**—the lungs are not working in that sense. However, organs remain **viable** for a period of time after circulation stops, and transplant teams follow strict protocols to ensure they remain suitable for transplantation. Techniques like organ preservation and transport procedures help maintain viability until the transplant can occur.
I hope that answers your questions! If anything is unclear or if you have more concerns, feel free to ask. I’m happy to expand on any of this.
Thank you,
Paul and Kim
Thank you for the questions. There's a lot there, so let me take some time to try and answer them and get back to you. I'll post the answers here soon.
A well-written rebuttal of a horrible piece of misinformation. Thank you, Paul.
Thank you for reading. It was both a labour of love and, regrettably, a necessity.